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 Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists 
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Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:35 pm
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New post Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
I still attend the SSPX out of necessity,
so I essentially assist an "una-cum mass". This brings me a lot of anxiety because I have talked to Bishop Sanborn and he has communicated to me that my assistance at an SSPX mass equates to a mortal sin, which has really bothered me. Because of this advice I became a "home-aloner" for two weeks becasue the CMRI is very far from my house. After two weeks, and consulting other references such as Most Holy Family Monastery (Dimond Brothers), CMRI, and SSPV, I decided to go back
to the SSPX and assist at the "una-cum mass", even though I still worry about committing mortal sin by attending. I am also very curious what my parameters are for our attending eastern catholic churches in communion with Rome that are done by a valid priest who was ordained either in the eastern rite or before 1969, because I know MHFM attends at EC church.

Additional theological issues that I worry about is NFP, BOD, Invincible Ignoracne, and BOB. I listen to the Dimond Brothers (MHFM) and they make it quite clear that all three go totally against the tradition of the church and are in fact mortal sins. This brings me great anxiety. Are they right? I recently purchased their $20 material package that includes a book titled "Outside The Church There Is No Salvation" basically echoing Fr. Feeney. They are pretty convincing. Are they right?

Some other questions I have regard attending the Novus Ordo for funerals and weddings of close realatives. Is it ever acceptable? Br. Dimond said never when I asked him via email. Also, how should I introduce the traditional faith to my grandmothers who are reaching old age? What is the easiest way of articulating the Vatican 2 fiasco to a elderly lay person like my grandmother who thinks Vatican 2 is just the way it is and goes to the saturday night novus ordo in jeans? How do I reach her? Finally, should I still continue to be friends with my non-catholic friends? Am I committing apostasy by doing anything social with non-catholics?


Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:30 am
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
Let me ask you a simple question in order to start from the beginning. What catechism have you learned your faith from, and how well do you know it?

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Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:34 am
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
John Lane wrote:
Let me ask you a simple question in order to start from the beginning. What catechism have you learned your faith from, and how well do you know it?


I have only been going to the latin mass for less than a year. I have glanced through the Baltimore Catechism, but I must admit I have never read it entirely nor have I been to any formal instruction by a priest. I learned most of what I learned through two websites, Tradition in Action and Most Holy Family Monastery Videos.

Professor Plinio Correa De Olieveira's writings have been great.
I also started watching youtube videos from SSPX priests and bishops.


Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:33 am
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
First of all, I would very, very strongly recommend that you get and READ, thoroughly, and study, the book, "The Catechism Explained: An Exhaustive Explanation of the Catholic Religion", by Spirago and Clarke.

Secondly, no one can tell you that you have committed a mortal sin by doing what you are doing in the sorts of situations you have mentioned. They CAN say that if THEY, themselves, do the things that you do, while believing as they do, THEY would be committing a mortal sin. But they cannot say the same thing about YOU! They are not your confessor. They are not God. Relax a little and try to learn from those of us who have been through possibly worse things.

You (and we) are going to have to take this project a step at a time at first.

There are three things required for a sin to be truly mortal. These are:

1) A grievous matter.

2) Sufficient reflection. i.e. thinking it over and deciding for or against it.

3) FULL consent of the WILL. This implies complete, or at least, enough understanding of the matters at hand.

If ANY of these are missing, or not fully understood, then, automatically, there is NO mortal sin involved. Period.

I'll add you to my daily prayers. In the meantime, listen to John and the others here. I promise you that none of us will steer you in a wrong direction.

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Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:08 am
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
needhelp10 wrote:
John Lane wrote:
Let me ask you a simple question in order to start from the beginning. What catechism have you learned your faith from, and how well do you know it?


I have only been going to the latin mass for less than a year. I have glanced through the Baltimore Catechism, but I must admit I have never read it entirely nor have I been to any formal instruction by a priest. I learned most of what I learned through two websites, Tradition in Action and Most Holy Family Monastery Videos.

Professor Plinio Correa De Olieveira's writings have been great.
I also started watching youtube videos from SSPX priests and bishops.


OK, so that's all understandable and shows plenty of good will. And your honesty in answering the question is admirable.

Now, what you want is order. Order within yourself and then order in others you love.

A good corrective of the chaos today is to look at how Catholics always behaved before the crisis began. In the early Church, when many or most new Christians were already adults, there was a lengthy catechetical process prior to Baptism, and then continued indoctrination afterwards as well. In the case of children, the process has always been to instruct them with the fundamentals, using a simple and brief catechism, then build upon that with more complete and complex catechisms as they learned and matured. So the lesson is, imitate this yourself. You have a few options, but the first thing you need to do is learn a basic catechism (e.g. the Penny Catechism, which is available in print and online) very well (ideally by heart but this isn't strictly necessary). This won't take you long and whatever sacrifice you consider it, it is worth it. Then move on to Spirago-Clarke, as Ken suggests. Another option is to attend adult catechism classes with your parish priest (but not until you learn your basic catechism). In the case of the SSPX these are generally offered on a week-night. I'm not sure about others but I'd be surprised if they're not offered by the CMRI, the SSPV, etc.

Now, this next point is equally important. Don't worry about any of the controversial things until you know your faith. You obviously wish to avoid sin, and in order to do so you need instruction. You can't choose what you don't know, and you can't avoid sin if you can't identify it. So, by focusing on the instruction first, you are doing what you need to do, in an orderly manner, to equip yourself to form the proper judgements you will need to make about everything, including the more controversial questions. But until you have so equipped yourself, you will remain subject to the assertions of whomever you speak to, and you won't be sure who is giving you accuate information. The result? Continued distress and confusion. So if you do as I suggest you can have an entirely clear conscience that you are doing the right thing in relation to all questions, by ensuring that you are properly informed in order to make sound judgements.

You could be a relatively well-informed Catholic, at least about all of the basics of the faith necessary for laymen, in three months, assuming you have average intelligence and you apply yourself.

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Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:28 am
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
Mr. Lane I appreciate the advice. I should also mention that I have read probably about 2/3 of the baltimore catechism. I am familiar with it. I have even watched numerous SSPX youtube vidoes on the catechism. I am afraid my unorganized first post made me appear more of a novice than I acutally am in regard to basic catechism knowledge. I do not mean to be rude, but I would really appreciate it if you gentlemen addressed my concerns in my original post and stop treating me like a little boy who doesn't even know his catechism. I do. I felt my questions were pretty valid.

Another question- I have a few uncles who are in adulterous marriages. Am I committing a venial or mortal sin when I go to dinner parties with my extended family when they are present? Being the only traditional catholic on either my mother or father's side, would I be justified in telling them that if they want to be saved they need to renounce their current spouse? Or would that just be stupid considering in their eyes I am underemployed 22 year old kid? I know that if I said this, my whole family would renounce me but I feel it must be done to open their eyes, so at least they can hear the truth even if its hard for them to swallow. That way I can sleep at night knowing I have said my piece.


Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:55 am
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
I'm sorry, we're just taking you at face value. With respect, reading 2/3 of a catechism won't equip you to sort out these difficult problems.

I would rather encourage you to become properly equipped to make your own judgements than act as a bureau service delivering ready-made answers. I don't want followers, but more importantly, I don't want to encourage people to look for a leader (except the hierarchy of the Church, of course). The whole idea is unhealthy. Yes, I know it is distinctly encouraged by plenty of others, but that doesn't justify it. It's horrible. So in fact, we're not treating you like a school boy, we're treating you like an adult. It's the people who take the opposite approach from ours who are treating you as a school boy, spoon-feeding you prepared answers.

Anyway, if you want to know what I think about "una cum" Masses, I wrote an article analysing the various cases put forward against them, here: http://strobertbellarmine.net/una_cum.html

I also wrote some objections to Bishop Sanborn's case, here: http://strobertbellarmine.net/interjections.html (the main thing you might note about Bishop Sanborn's case is that he felt the need to redefine "communicatio in sacris" in order to make his case against lay assistance at "una cum" Masses).

My own view is that the SSPX is a wonderful, Catholic, faithful, organisation which has as few flaws as any traditional Catholic group out there. My main concern, apart from their publicly anti-sedevacantist position, is their occasional employment of Novus-ordained "priests" (i.e. without re-ordination). For this reason each chapel needs to be checked before one can rely upon the sacraments there.

I see no doctrinal or canonical problem with assisting at Holy Mass offered by an oriental Catholic priest, however they have been known to use Latin-Rite bishops for ordination and they do appear to be becoming more and more liberal as the years go by, so both the faith and the orders of any given priest would need to be assessed prior to taking advantage of them. In the 'nineties I went to both Melkite and Ukrainian Masses on occasion, so I've some limited experience. In practice there is generally no need to resort to them, and a myriad of problems could and probably will arise (including the fact that you won't be worshipping with fellow traditional Catholics).

Anyway, they're my opinions. Please take Ken's and my earlier advice. It's a better approach.

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Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:28 am
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
needhelp10 wrote:
Another question- I have a few uncles who are in adulterous marriages. Am I committing a venial or mortal sin when I go to dinner parties with my extended family when they are present? Being the only traditional catholic on either my mother or father's side, would I be justified in telling them that if they want to be saved they need to renounce their current spouse? Or would that just be stupid considering in their eyes I am underemployed 22 year old kid? I know that if I said this, my whole family would renounce me but I feel it must be done to open their eyes, so at least they can hear the truth even if its hard for them to swallow. That way I can sleep at night knowing I have said my piece.


It's certainly an essential consideration in the formation of this kind of practical judgement as to whether your efforts will have any impact. If you see no realistic hope of making a difference, then you are not obliged to say anything.

But the situation you describe is frightfully complicated. A few distinctions will make this clear. One, whether you visit the adulterous home or invite them to your home is a distinct question from whether you simultaneously visit some common place such as your parents' home. Two, the question of charity towards them (in the form of correction) is distinct from the question of your obligation to avoid scandal by appearing to consent to their sin. Three, their religion is relevant. If they were raised as Catholics then they may (and must) be held to a higher standard than otherwise. Four, the world has changed so radically from before Vatican II that the circumstances in which one would think that a given act may reasonably give scandal are fewer than they were. Anyway, there's no way anybody could advise you on this without much more data.

But frankly, you shouldn't be asking for this kind of advice on the Internet. Only a very well informed moralist could hope to formulate specific advice on this kind of question. Ask your priest (he's had proper theology training and he'll have a handbook or two to consult), and follow his advice. That way you have acted reasonably and you can be sure that you have a good conscience. If the priest's advice is mistaken, you are still in the clear.

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Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:42 am
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
Sir,

John and Ken have both given you very good advice. I would also urge you to read the Spirago-Clarke Catechism. This is not a catechism for children, but is a useful resource that will help you immensely with your Faith, and is a book you can refer back to from time to time. It is online for free: http://www.archive.org/details/catechismexplain00spir In order to build a big and beautiful building the foundation must be strong and well reinforced.

If you do not already pray at least five decades of the Rosary every day, it is 15 minutes well spent that will win you graces and keep you close to Our Lady. God bless you, and I will pray for you in my Rosary today.

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Mike


Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:58 am
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
needhelp10 wrote:
Mr. Lane I appreciate the advice. I should also mention that I have read probably about 2/3 of the baltimore catechism. I am familiar with it. I have even watched numerous SSPX youtube vidoes on the catechism. I am afraid my unorganized first post made me appear more of a novice than I acutally am in regard to basic catechism knowledge. I do not mean to be rude, but I would really appreciate it if you gentlemen addressed my concerns in my original post and stop treating me like a little boy who doesn't even know his catechism. I do. I felt my questions were pretty valid.


Dear Sir: One of the most important virtues for holiness is humility. We are giving you the advice that helped us the most. Please don't feel insulted. You have a lot to learn. We all did.

needhelp10 wrote:
Another question- I have a few uncles who are in adulterous marriages. Am I committing a venial or mortal sin when I go to dinner parties with my extended family when they are present?


Of course not. Why would you?

needhelp10 wrote:
Being the only traditional catholic on either my mother or father's side, would I be justified in telling them that if they want to be saved they need to renounce their current spouse?


In my opinion, no. One must be very careful of OTHER souls. You are under no obligation to say any such thing to them. In fact, to do so could be an indication of considerable pride on your part. Now...if they ASK you, you MUST tell the truth as you see it, but you MUST be gentle about it.

needhelp10 wrote:
Or would that just be stupid considering in their eyes I am underemployed 22 year old kid?


That should have absolutely no bearing on the matter at all. Nonetheless, I would be very careful how you approach such issues.

Let me put it to you this way: if they ASK your opinion on such matters, that would show that they are at least leaning in the right direction. If you came down on them too harshly, it could very well force them to back away from heading in the right direction. One must be very careful...and humble...in such situations.

needhelp10 wrote:
I know that if I said this, my whole family would renounce me but I feel it must be done to open their eyes, so at least they can hear the truth even if its hard for them to swallow. That way I can sleep at night knowing I have said my piece.


No. I completely disagree. I repeat: you must be very careful of this! Again, and again, and again, I stress: you MUST practice humility in these matters.

The very best thing you can do for your family is to pray for them, especially the Rosary. If you go to this URL:

http://www.eclipseofthechurch.com/ and look in the library, you will find a Rosary Novena. It is 54 days long. Pray that Novena for your family and you WILL see remarkable things happening.

And not just for them either: for yourself, too. Pray the Rosary, and wear Our Lady's garment, Her Brown Scapular.

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Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:25 pm
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
Young Man: let me tell you something else that may at least console you somewhat: through our website, we have been contacted by a few young men, much like yourself, with very similar questions. One is in New Jersey: he, with considerable help from one of his grandmothers, has managed to pull his entire family away from the Novus Ordo and is working hard to educate both himself and them. He is also unemployed and about 30. Another just turned 19, is in New York, and wants badly to be a real priest. He also has pulled his entire family along with himself away from the Novus Ordo. Another is in Belgium. He is, or will be, 22. We are most impressed with him. Another is in Missouri. Same story. Another is in the country of Georgia, in the former Soviet Union. We communicate with him in Russian. Another is in the Island of Malta. He suspects that he is the only Traditional Catholic in all of Malta. He has a great devotion to Our Lady. All of these are young men, much as yourself, and we have others.

I must also mention an older woman who, much to her own surprise, recently totally overthrew the Novus Ordo and is almost frantically learning as much about her Faith as she possibly can, and is instructing her family in the same manner.

From these, it gives me and my wife and family hope for the future of the Church.

Lastly, if we did not feel you were an adult, we most certainly would not have suggested Spriago and Clarke!

However, one thing to keep in mind: several men whom I consider to be saints have begun their study of the Catholic Faith by first studying the simplest CHILDREN'S Catechisms: i.e., Baltimore Catechism #1, and continuing. They memorized those, and then increased their knowledge from there.

Those are a good, solid, base upon which to build the edifice.

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Last edited by Ken Gordon on Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:40 pm
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
Thank you for your replies and I will begin reading the catechism that was provided in the link.

I think there is a possibility I may have severe scruples, or it could just be a good catholic conscience. I honestly don't know. Usually before receiving communion I think about the whole week that is passed, and usually something comes to mind that is probably a venial sin, but in my mind it becomes a mortal sin and should bar me from communion. Like profanity, laughing at a dirty joke, extremely paranoid about any type of meat sneaking into my food on Friday etc. etc. Are these types of things grave matters? Also, I keep re-confessing previous mortal sins because sometimes I doubt that God has really forgiven me and I should keep doing general confessions over and over again, from different priests- SSPX, CMRI, eastern rite, just to be safe.

But possibly the worst part about scruples, or it could be a good catholic conscience, I don't know, is the pain I feel in associating with non-catholics in my day to day life. I literally have no traditional catholic friends in my area. I went to public school, so all my friends now are prots., muslims, agnostics, etc. etc. Now that I have converted to the true catholic faith, should I cut off all contact with these people? If they invite me to do things like go to lunch, go fishing, or play basketball, is my association with them constitute a grave matter and a scandal to the church? Should I tell my friends point blank that There is No Salvation Outside The Church, and sins which they think are cute and funny like the sins of impurity are actually demons in disguise that will ruin them unless validly confessed to a traditional priest? Should I imitate Most Holy Family Monastery and tell my friends basically "convert or go to hell"?

Like I said I may have scruples. So my questions may seem laughable, but they are quite serious to me and I'm loosing sleep over these issues. I may have spiritual pride because sometimes I have a desire to do extaordinary penances like the Cure of Ars in order to prove myself to God. For example, last night I purposely stayed up until 2 am doing spiritual reading so that my sleep deprivation would be a repeartion for my sins and my my family's sins.

The reason why I joined this site is because I am getting such conflicting information from sedevacantists.
For example CMRI believes in BOD and NFP and they say I can go to SSPX.

SSPV says yes to BOD, NFP, and una cum masses, but no to CMRI.

Bp. Sanborn says yes to BOD, NFP, CMRI, but no to SSPX masses.

MHFM says no to BOD, NFP, but yes to SSPX and even EC in communion with Rome.

Talk about confusion lol. Reminds me of when I had to cram for a chemistry test.


Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:00 pm
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
needhelp10 wrote:
Thank you for your replies and I will begin reading the catechism that was provided in the link.


Good.

needhelp10 wrote:
I think there is a possibility I may have severe scruples, or it could just be a good catholic conscience. I honestly don't know. Usually before receiving communion I think about the whole week that is passed, and usually something comes to mind that is probably a venial sin, but in my mind it becomes a mortal sin and should bar me from communion. Like profanity, laughing at a dirty joke, extremely paranoid about any type of meat sneaking into my food on Friday etc. etc. Are these types of things grave matters?


Usually, not...in my opinion.

needhelp10 wrote:
Also, I keep re-confessing previous mortal sins because sometimes I doubt that God has really forgiven me and I should keep doing general confessions over and over again, from different priests- SSPX, CMRI, eastern rite, just to be safe.


That activity definitely points to scruples. ONE of the bases for scruples of this sort is....PRIDE! Sorry, but that is true. I suffered from scruples for many years, especially when I was young (I am now nearing 70) and know what I am talking about. Just about the only way you can completely overcome scruples is to put yourself into the hands of a competent confessor, tell him exactly what is going on, and then follow his instructions to the letter. These days, it may take you some time to find such.

One thing you should keep in mind: what is the perfect antidote to pride? Humility. If you work at practicing humility, you will slowly overcome pride to a good extent.

needhelp10 wrote:
But possibly the worst part about scruples, or it could be a good catholic conscience, I don't know, is the pain I feel in associating with non-catholics in my day to day life. I literally have no traditional catholic friends in my area.


Most of us do not. In fact, for most of us, our own families think we are nuts...and maybe we are! :wink:

needhelp10 wrote:
I went to public school, so all my friends now are prots., muslims, agnostics, etc. etc. Now that I have converted to the true catholic faith, should I cut off all contact with these people?


In my opinion, no, although you should limit your contact to those types of activities that are innocent, like fishing, etc.

needhelp10 wrote:
If they invite me to do things like go to lunch, go fishing, or play basketball, is my association with them constitute a grave matter and a scandal to the church?


Of course not. God often gives us opportunities when engaged in such innocent activities to do some apostolical work: for instance, if one of them should start to say something off-color, you can register disapproval. However, don't use a sledge-hammer when a feather would do the trick.

needhelp10 wrote:
Should I tell my friends point blank that There is No Salvation Outside The Church, and sins which they think are cute and funny like the sins of impurity are actually demons in disguise that will ruin them unless validly confessed to a traditional priest?


Again, in my opinion, doing such, in that detail might do more harm than good.

Our Lord told us, "Be as wise as serpents, but as gentle as doves." He also told us, "Learn of Me for I am meek and humble of heart.", which, if you think about it, is truly amazing, that God would be humble. This, alone, should tell us that our ideas of humility are not the same as God's.

needhelp10 wrote:
Should I imitate Most Holy Family Monastery and tell my friends basically "convert or go to hell"?


Absolutely not. That is much too harsh. What good would it do, since they really do not understand what you mean?

needhelp10 wrote:
Like I said I may have scruples.


There is no doubt in my mind that you do.

needhelp10 wrote:
So my questions may seem laughable,


No. They most definitely do not.

needhelp10 wrote:
but they are quite serious to me and I'm losing sleep over these issues.


The search for true holiness results in PEACE of soul, not constant stress. That stress, alone, should tell you that you are on the wrong track.

needhelp10 wrote:
I may have spiritual pride because sometimes I have a desire to do extraordinary penances like the Cure of Ars in order to prove myself to God. For example, last night I purposely stayed up until 2 am doing spiritual reading so that my sleep deprivation would be a reparation for my sins and my my family's sins.


Further proof of pride. No one is called to such things unless directed by God and for OTHER than personal desires.

Your first duty before God is to do your daily duty. Part of that daily duty includes constant prayer. Your Morning Offering. Your daily Rosary. Prayer for others. Get at it, and stop all this thinking too much.

needhelp10 wrote:
The reason why I joined this site is because I am getting such conflicting information from sedevacantists.
For example CMRI believes in BOD and NFP and they say I can go to SSPX.

SSPV says yes to BOD, NFP, and una cum masses, but no to CMRI.

Bp. Sanborn says yes to BOD, NFP, CMRI, but no to SSPX masses.

MHFM says no to BOD, NFP, but yes to SSPX and even EC in communion with Rome.

Talk about confusion lol. Reminds me of when I had to cram for a chemistry test.


Most of the above problems are a result of the complete lack of a real and competent hierarchy, which is further proof that the present usurpers of the Holy See are apostates. However, some of the above problems come from much personal pride on the part of certain of those who teach as they do.

Of those you mention above, the one that is causing you the least problems is the CMRI. If you cannot follow everything they do or teach, at least you can follow their example of kindliness.

God Bless you.

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Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:38 pm
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
Sir,

Ken's advice is excellent. I think you have scruples too. The re-confession of sins is a sure sign of something deeply wrong. I suspected scruples from your first couple of posts, and I am glad you asked.

The only hope for somebody with scruples is submission to a competent confessor. The scrupulous conscience is incapable of sound judgement. This is why there is only one way you can proceed. Find yourself a confessor and follow his advice exactly.

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Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:00 pm
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
Quote:
I think there is a possibility I may have severe scruples, or it could just be a good catholic conscience. I honestly don't know. Usually before receiving communion I think about the whole week that is passed, and usually something comes to mind that is probably a venial sin, but in my mind it becomes a mortal sin and should bar me from communion. Like profanity, laughing at a dirty joke, extremely paranoid about any type of meat sneaking into my food on Friday etc. etc. Are these types of things grave matters? Also, I keep re-confessing previous mortal sins because sometimes I doubt that God has really forgiven me and I should keep doing general confessions over and over again, from different priests- SSPX, CMRI, eastern rite, just to be safe.


Sir,

I prayed 5 decades of the Rosary just for you today, and I had not even seen your recent post until after. I think that if it is within your means, to consider attending a retreat with the Society of St. Pius X. They have excellent abbreviated Ignatian retreats for 5 days. This retreat would give you the benefit of spiritual exercises and plenty of time with the priest to work through this. Retreat schedule and information here: http://www.sspx.org/retreats.htm

I will keep you in my prayers. Whatever happens do not get discouraged. God has a plan for you, and your have been given graces to come this far. Nothing is accidental with God. You have found the true Faith for a reason, and if you faithfully follow this Faith, you will grow, and God's plan will become clearer for you with time.

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Mike


Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:17 am
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
John Lane wrote:
Sir,

Ken's advice is excellent. I think you have scruples too. The re-confession of sins is a sure sign of something deeply wrong. I suspected scruples from your first couple of posts, and I am glad you asked.

The only hope for somebody with scruples is submission to a competent confessor. The scrupulous conscience is incapable of sound judgement. This is why there is only one way you can proceed. Find yourself a confessor and follow his advice exactly.


What John said: EXACTLY!

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Kenneth G. Gordon


Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:26 pm
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
I asked my grandma who has been novus ordo for decades if she wanted to go to SSPX TLM with me tomorrow. She said no because she had to go to a baby shower for her niece....who is having a baby [completely unlawfully]. Truly sick. I really got hot over the phone and didn't know what to say. All I said was "your going to that?" In a questioning/argumentitive tone. She replied "well you can't disown", "I gotta support my sister, she was their for my daughters baby showers", "I don't really like it but what am I gonna do".....typical pagan heresey. I really considered going off on my grandma and telling her [unnatural vice] is an abomination and she is objectively committing a mortal sin by attending the shower....but I didn't because I didn't think it would do any good, and I also didnt want to argue like that over a sensitive issue over the phone. I was also catutious to get in a heated argument with my 83 year old grandma who is very weak when it comes to human respect of her family. Now I feel bad, like I committed a mortal sin of omission by not saying more. Did I?

[Edited by moderator - this forum is for all ages.]


Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:35 pm
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
I think you expressed disapproval, which was an act of charity.

You need to get her to Mass and the sacraments, obviously. Then if she has any faith left and some good will, her mind will come round to sounder thinking. It's good she didn't refuse outright - she merely had another engagement. On the face of it she may well come along one Sunday.

It's disgusting how the older ones adopt the utter paganism of the day through base human respect. It really is. It's a good lesson for us.

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Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:58 pm
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
John Lane wrote:
I think you expressed disapproval, which was an act of charity.

You need to get her to Mass and the sacraments, obviously. Then if she has any faith left and some good will, her mind will come round to sounder thinking. It's good she didn't refuse outright - she merely had another engagement. On the face of it she may well come along one Sunday.

It's disgusting how the older ones adopt the utter paganism of the day through base human respect. It really is. It's a good lesson for us.


She told me she wanted to go to the TLM mass with me next week. Considering the fact that I KNOW 100% that she attended this abominable "baby shower", do I have an obligation to tell her she must confess if she wants to receive communion at the SSPX TLM?


Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:15 am
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
needhelp10 wrote:
She told me she wanted to go to the TLM mass with me next week. Considering the fact that I KNOW 100% that she attended this abominable "baby shower", do I have an obligation to tell her she must confess if she wants to receive communion at the SSPX TLM?


I'd arrange to get her there early and suggest tactfully that she go to confession before Holy Mass. You have no strict obligation on the matter - you don't know that her acts were mortally sinful (she is old, ignorant, and may not have understood the gravity of the situation, etc.), and even if you knew for sure you'd still have no strict obligation.

And if you worry about sacrilege keep in mind that Our Lord Jesus Christ has the power to stop all sacrilege and He chooses not to do so, because His way is to let us crucify Him and be drawn to Him by His overwhelming love and mercy. Even a priest faced at the Communion rail with a person he knows to be in mortal sin, if the sin is occult (i.e. not public) must give him Holy Communion rather than reveal his sin by refusing. That is the spirit of our God.

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Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:55 am
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
John Lane wrote:
Even a priest faced at the Communion rail with a person he knows to be in mortal sin, if the sin is occult (i.e. not public) must give him Holy Communion rather than reveal his sin by refusing. That is the spirit of our God.


Exactly.

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Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:15 pm
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
Just an update I took my grandmother with me to TLM mass today. Everything was fine, it reminded her of her youth, except for now she makes comments about going back to her saturday night NO. I tried explaining V2 to her, but its hard to get through to her. She has also been diagnosed with cancer so I feel a lot of urgency. She asked me if I would go to her funeral if it was Novus Ordo and if she was cremated. I told her "maybe". She laughed and said I was going and that was that. What recommendations do you people have for me to get her to gradually convert to tradition and stop being associated with novus ordo? I am thinking about showing her MHFM book "What Really Happened At Vatican II" because it is so descriptive. I am thinking about tearing out the pages regarding BOD and NFP and then giving her the book as a present.


Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:45 pm
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
needhelp10 wrote:
Just an update I took my grandmother with me to TLM mass today. Everything was fine, it reminded her of her youth, except for now she makes comments about going back to her saturday night NO.


One step at a time. So far, so good. Just keep gently pushing. Be kind.

needhelp10 wrote:
I tried explaining V2 to her, but its hard to get through to her.


It will be very hard for her to put aside many years of V2. Just keep pushing....gently.

needhelp10 wrote:
She has also been diagnosed with cancer so I feel a lot of urgency. She asked me if I would go to her funeral if it was Novus Ordo and if she was cremated. I told her "maybe". She laughed and said I was going and that was that.


Well, just smile sweetly and ignore that. Do keep in mind that it has been, generally, permitted for Catholics to attend non-Catholic weddings and funerals, as long as no scandal takes place.

needhelp10 wrote:
What recommendations do you people have for me to get her to gradually convert to tradition and stop being associated with novus ordo?


Prayer...on your part. Try to get her to say at least one 5 decade Rosary per day. One way to do this is to ask her to pray a Rosary for YOU. Her prayers for you, if properly "aimed", will do far more good for her than for you anyway.

needhelp10 wrote:
I am thinking about showing her MHFM book "What Really Happened At Vatican II" because it is so descriptive. I am thinking about tearing out the pages regarding BOD and NFP and then giving her the book as a present.


I have not read that book...at least not recently. However, the Radecki brothers (CMRI) wrote an entire series that, while not totally complete, do a very good job, yet leave out the errors of the Dimonds. There are also other books that cover individual subjects that might help. I.e. "The Problems with the New Mass" by Rama P. Coomaraswamy is pretty good. Various articles and books by Fr. Cekada and Fr. Sanborn (before he was a bishop). The original book by Mr. Lane's father-in-law, Patrick Henry Omlor, entitled, "Questioning The Validity of the Masses using the New, All English Canon" and his book, "The Robber Church" are valuable for beginning investigators. Fr. Wathen's book, "The Great Sacrilege" is a bit strong, but very accurate.

Others here will possibly have better choices.

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Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:30 pm
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
Im asking for your prayers.

I just got into a terrible fight with my novus ordo family. I came off sounding extremely uncharitable. I asked my parents if they believed [edited] and sins of impurity were mortal sins...they said no so I yelled at them calling them heretics. Then I asked them if the novus ordo priest who married them talked to them about [edited], they said no, and I said well he is a heretic. Then I told my brother if he gets married in a novus ordo I am not going, and he said he never wants to talk to me again. Then I told my grandma who has cancer that I might not go to her funeral if its novus ordo. I came off sounding terrible, really pridefull. I live with my parents and brother with no real job, so I have to stick it out in the future. NFP and BOD and MHFM have caused me extreme anxiety, and I need to focus on my own spiritual soul rather than these issues. Please pray for my humility and spiritual perservearance and the conversion of my novus ordo family....everything I could have done wrong I did tonight. My anger and temper fell for the trap laid out by the devil to make me sound like an uncharitable heartless lunatic.


Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:26 am
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
needhelp10 wrote:
Im asking for your prayers....everything I could have done wrong I did tonight.


Well if it's any consolation I've made most of the same mistakes. :)

Just apologise and say to them what you have said here, which is you acted like a goose. That will undo much of the damage.

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Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:38 am
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
Can I please ask all contributors to read this post and the following ones? viewtopic.php?p=1071#p1071

There's a delicate balance to be achieved here, because we do aim to assist our friends with keeping the faith, but we definitely don't want to be running a counseling service. I strongly recommend that all personal issues be taken to a priest.

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Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:47 am
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New post Re: Questions for sedevacantists/sediprivationists
John Lane wrote:
needhelp10 wrote:
Im asking for your prayers....everything I could have done wrong I did tonight.


Well if it's any consolation I've made most of the same mistakes. :)


Surely, Sir, you don't feel like the "Alone Stranger" (i.e. Lone Ranger)? I suspect we all have, at one time or another.

John Lane wrote:
Just apologise and say to them what you have said here, which is you acted like a goose. That will undo much of the damage.


Agreed.

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Kenneth G. Gordon


Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:47 pm
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